Q1. We appreciate your taking your time for this interview. We are especially interested in whether you are committed to holding a referendum on March 20. If so, what will be the subject?
A: Before I answer the questions that you have just proposed, let me make some explanations beforehand. While international community is highly affirmative of Taiwan's democratic achievements, I notice the international community only understands the democratic achievements that Taiwan currently enjoys but lacks a thorough understanding of the efforts that Taiwan has made and the difficulties that it faces today in its pursuit of democracy. Most people only see the lifting of martial law, the ban on political parties, restrictions on the publication of newspapers, and how Taiwan has proceeded along the road to democracy with the complete re-election of the legislature and the direct election of the president. However, most people do not understand the very difficult journey we had undertaken to have martial law lifted, to enjoy true multiparty politics, and to have one hundred percent freedom of the press and freedom of speech, to be able to hold regular legislative elections, and to have the head of state directly elected by the people. During the pursuit of democracy, the then-ruling party and administration opposed and resisted all kinds of demands for further reforms. Their main excuse and reason was that if we lifted martial law, if we lifted the ban on political parties or restrictions on newspaper publication, if we allowed complete re-election of the legislature, or if we allowed for direct presidential election, then China would attack us.
In other words, in the old days, when the then-opposition or the pioneers of democracy demanded democratic reforms, the administration rejected their demands on the excuse or logic that the Chinese communists would attack Taiwan. They used this counter-reform and counter-democratic rhetoric, mainly based on the excuse that China might attack us.
The government or the governing party in the past saw democratic reform as equivalent to Taiwan independence or as equivalent to the insurgence of war. They saw the demands for democratization as equal to the call for independence and that would cause China to attack Taiwan.
In the same light, today's opposition, which consists mainly of the Kuomintang (KMT) and People First Party (PFP), which used to be ruling party of Taiwan, still put fear in the people by equating referendums with Taiwan independence, and with war initiated by China against Taiwan.
To put it even more clearly, in the process of democratization, the ruling regime of the past stand in the same line with the People's Republic of China (PRC) in suppressing Taiwan's democratic reforms.
The PRC has over the long-term perceived Taiwan's internal pursuit of further democratization as Taiwan independence, or something that will lead to Taiwan independence. Therefore, they would not renounce the use of force against Taiwan.
Faced with such adversities, however, Taiwan's 23 million people and the democratic movement have never been intimidated by the military threat from the PRC. Nor have we been intimidated and held back by the former ruling party's playing the China card and their rhetoric that if we engaged in further democratization, that it would hinder the stability of our society.
Today, martial law has been lifted and there are no more restrictions on political parties or the publication of newspapers. We also have experienced the complete re-election of our legislature and held direct presidential elections. However, those who had resisted such changes, such trends, were the Kuomintang and the People's Republic of China. Now the KMT has become the opposition, while the PRC still exists and their military intimidation of Taiwan has not decreased, nor have they changed their stance. We have, however, completed our own internal democratic reforms.
Over the last 50 years, the road to democracy cost the lives of many people, freedoms were compromised, and families sacrificed their happiness and well-being. This pursuit is ongoing, however, and we have finally succeeded. Now the next stage for further democratization lies in holding a referendum as well as the introduction of a new constitution of Taiwan. We have confidence that we will succeed eventually.
Holding of a referendum is a milestone in our democratic consolidation and the deepening of Taiwan's democracy. It has no bearing on the so-called unification or independence issues. Nor will holding of a referendum violate the pledges on “five noes” that I made in my inaugural speech. We cannot accept equating referendum with Taiwan independence. Referendum is a universal basic human right. By equating it with Taiwan independence is a serious distortion and insult to such a precious universal human right. If referendum is equated with war, it would be a negation of Taiwan's democratic achievements and a connivance with China's military intimidation. Referendum, for me, is a strong belief that I have held for more than 20 years and a longstanding goal and ideal that we have worked hard to achieve.
Many countries around the world are very familiar with the exercise of referendums. Several countries have had referendums for over a hundred years. Some have had it for several decades and some have just recently held a referendum. Whether they be in communist countries, less developed countries, or even less democratic countries, the people have been able to enjoy the universal right or birthright of referendum. Why should the 23 million people of Taiwan be deprived of this fundamental right?
In the past, when Taiwan was under authoritarian rule, the issue of referendum was perceived as a political taboo or even an absolute taboo. Yet in this democratic era, some groups and individuals create innumerable obstacles and threats against referendums.
Not long ago, the opposition still rejected the idea of holding referendums. Now they have followed the position advocated by the DPP and endorsed by me, to pass a Referendum Law, which marks a very important historical moment in our process of democratization.
To put it very candidly, however, the Referendum Law passed recently is not entirely satisfactory, in fact, in our opinion, several parts of it are unacceptable because they are somewhat absurd and contradictory. Some parts are even against the Constitution.
Fortunately, the Referendum Law includes one very important article, that is Article 17, which concerns “defensive referendums.” “Defensive referendums” exist to allow the deepening of Taiwan's democracy as well as the safeguarding and defending of Taiwan's peace and security. In order to deepen our democracy and in order to ensure peace, we see it necessary to push forward with a “defensive referendum.” We intend to hold the first referendum in Taiwan's history, a “defensive referendum,” on the same day as the election for presidency, which is on 20th of March next year.
The reasons for this are several. Firstly, we must consolidate the people's mental fortitude, build a nationwide defense network and unite our people. Among Taiwan's 23 million people, there is a great internal crisis. Quite a few people, however, obviously lack a clear sense of crisis, and lack a clear sense of friend-and-foe. Taiwan faces a serious threat from China. They have deployed 496 ballistic missiles along the coastal areas within 600km of Taiwan, and which target Taiwan. Faced with such a crisis, such an imminent threat, how can some people totally lack a sense of crisis and a sense of hostility from the other side of the Strait.
Secondly, I'd like to say that China's deployment of ballistic missiles and military intimidation against Taiwan does not just endanger Taiwan, but it also poses a serious threat to peace and security for the whole Asia-Pacific region. I would, therefore, like to take this opportunity to call for nations around the world, in particular nations in the Asia-Pacific region, to seriously examine the threat posed by China against Taiwan.
Our actions are not only taken for the deepening and defense of Taiwan's hard-won democracy. Furthermore, we engage in such actions in pursuit of the peace and security of the Asia-Pacific region as well as for the world.
Thirdly, the Beijing government has refused to sit down and engage in a real dialogue with Taiwan's government, and they have claimed again and again that they want to lay their hope in the people of Taiwan. By holding a defensive referendum, Taiwan will show to China the true voice of its people.
We want to make Taiwan people's voice heard by the Beijing authority and make them listen to the concerted outcry of 23 million people that what we want is democracy, what we want is peace; we do not want ballistic missiles; we do not want war.
On March 20th next year, therefore, we will hold our first historical referendum, and decide on what the issues listed on the first referendum will be. The 23 million people of Taiwan will firmly demand that the Peoples Republic of China immediately withdraw all the ballistic missiles targeting Taiwan and also openly and publicly announce and promise that they will not use force against Taiwan. If the Beijing authority and leadership in China can respond with goodwill and agree to immediately withdraw all the Ballistic missiles targeting Taiwan, and openly announce that they will not use force against Taiwan, then we will not holding a defensive referendum.
Q2: Given the recent rhetoric from Beijing, are we already in the tensest period of cross-strait relations since 1996, and, if so, do you think that this action on your part will increase those tensions in a way that might upset the United States and other foreign countries?
A: The people of Taiwan want democracy and peace. They oppose missiles and reject war. That this stance would cause some countries to engage in military intimidation and belligerent rhetoric is unimaginable.
The Chinese government can oppose democracy and reforms. However, they have absolutely no right to turn against the will and the determination of the 23 million people of Taiwan in pursuit of democracy and reforms. The United States is a great and democratic country that respects the will of the people, loves democracy, upholds freedom, and shows concern for human rights. I am confident that the people and government of the United States will not oppose the efforts of the 23 million people of Taiwan to enhance democracy and ensure peace.
Q3: Mr. President, you just mentioned that under certain conditions you would consider not holding a defensive referendum. If China did not respond with goodwill, what would be the actual wording and content of a referendum should Taiwan hold one?
A: The topic of the referendum as mentioned could be for the 23 million people of Taiwan to demand that China immediately withdraw the missiles targeting Taiwan and openly renounce the use of force against Taiwan. Thus the topic of this kind of defensive referendum does not involve the issue of independence or unification, nor would it go against my “five noes” pledge. It represents the deepening of Taiwan's democracy and a guarantee of peace.
Q4: Our experience with holding referendums in the United States, whether at the state or national level, is that, as a journalist, we often feel that there are some politicians who propose referendums as a means of extending their own political careers. Mr. President, could you please explain whether your proposal of a referendum is aimed at winning re-election the next presidential election or firming up domestic support, because at present it looks like a close race with no guarantee of victory.
A: First of all, I'd like to say that I'm already a president and it doesn't make a big difference to me whether I serve for one term or two terms. Secondly, a referendum represents a concept and belief that I have pursued throughout my more-than-20-year political career. It is a universal value and a basic human right. Moreover, I believe that it is also a dream long pursued by the 23 million people of Taiwan. As the leader of this country, it is my responsibility—my mission and duty—to shoulder.
As this referendum is called a defensive referendum, our primary goal and purpose is to avoid war. Some argue that holding such a defensive referendum might send our children to the front line. In fact, the opposite is true. By holding such a referendum, we will avoid sending our children to war. We must prepare our defense in advance to avoid war. This is also why we demand that the PRC immediately withdraw its missiles and openly renounce the use of force against Taiwan.
Q5: Have you received a letter or message in the last few days from the National Security Council asking that you not take actions that might disrupt the stability of the Taiwan Strait? The United States has repeatedly expressed that this is Taiwan's internal affair, but does not want to see war in the Taiwan Strait.
A: To safeguard peace across the Taiwan Strait and to ensure the security and stability of the Asia-Pacific region is Taiwan’s responsibility. I also see it as my duty and responsibility. When I proposed the “five noes” pledge during my inaugural speech in the year 2000, I had a precondition: As long as the Chinese communist regime has no intention to use military force against Taiwan, I guarantee that I will uphold the “five noes” pledge during my term as president. Almost four years have passed, and I have kept my word. However, Beijing has continued to expand its military capabilities and increase its military budget. It has also heightened the threat of missiles deployed against Taiwan. Furthermore, the leaders in China have openly stated many times that they do not renounce the use of force against Taiwan. In 1962, the US faced the 13 alarming days of the Cuban Missile Crisis. With 496 ballistic missiles aimed at the 23 million people of Taiwan, every day for us is an alarming day.
We are promoting a referendum and pushing for a new constitution. There is nothing unusual about the United States government, as a very good friend of Taiwan, expressing its concern. This is understandable, and we appreciate it. Some people who oppose a defensive referendum have made up stories or distorted the significance of defensive referendum. They equate it to a referendum on the issue of unification and independence. This is inconsistent with reality, and does not represent our original intention. It is not fair to us for it to be labeled a referendum on unification and independence.
I've already made it very clear that next year's March 20 defensive referendum should demand that the PRC withdraw all missiles and openly renounce the use of force against Taiwan. I think that the United States government understands very well that it would not be a referendum on independence, nor would it go against the “five noes.” It is about the deepening of our democracy and the safeguarding of peace. The US government should have no reason to oppose.
Q6: Mr. President, do you think that the US government can fully understand and strongly support the goals and ideals that you hope to achieve through a defensive referendum? Do you believe that Bush administration officials will really be able to understand the points that you have just clarified in this interview? Are you concerned that your timing is inappropriate—that some people in Washington might believe that by raising these proposals and holding a defensive referendum at this point in time, Taiwan could jeopardize the balanced relationship between the United States, China, and Taiwan?
A: Taiwan supports and would be happy to see the improved relations between the United States and China, as well as their cooperation on anti-terrorist actions and the problem of North Korea. However, we do not wish to see Taiwan's democracy sacrificed over these issues.
We hope that the Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao, will not use his upcoming visit to the United States to ask that Taiwan be suppressed and sacrificed. As for China's intentions and the motivations of the Beijing leadership, we would not be surprised, because they have always done such things. However, the US government should be clear that it cannot sacrifice Taiwan's democracy, or the further consolidation and deepening of its democracy, in exchange for the favor of Wen Jiabao or Beijing's leaders.
The efforts of the people of Taiwan in deepening and consolidating our democracy and ensuring peace should be lauded and encouraged by both the people and government of the United States. This deepening of democracy and safeguarding of peace are assets to the United States, certainly not liabilities. The 23 million people of Taiwan have a historic opportunity next March 20 to hold their first referendum, a defensive referendum to avoid war by opposing the deployment of missiles by the PRC and its intention to use force against Taiwan. This should be a source of pride for the United States.
Therefore, some have even referred to the defensive referendum in Article 17 of the Referendum Law as Taiwan's political TMD (theater missile defense).
Q7: I have a slightly sensitive question. Do you have a long term plan for pursuing independence? Beijing seemed to have assumed that you attempts to declare independence while Beijing holds the 2008 Olympic Games.
A: That's not how we would think about it. They have a great imagination. Beijing will be holding the 2008 Olympic Games, and we're very happy for them. We will be holding Taiwan Expo in the same year and have our own goals to which we are committed. We want to maintain our competitive economic edge and ensure our niche in economic development. We have seen that the PRC previously had four constitutions. In other words, its constitution has been rewritten four times. The 23 million people of Taiwan also want to have one constitution that really belongs to them, one fundamental law of the country. The current constitution, which was promulgated in 1947, is definitely not suitable for or tailored to today's 23 million people. It has too many problems, with more than two-thirds of it in need of revision. We cannot repeat the same mistakes. We must make it more suitable and viable. Therefore, we hope to do it through a national referendum and the formulation of a new constitution. National referendum is itself the spirit of making a constitution. We do not want to play the meaningless word game of “constitutional amendment” and “formulation of the constitution.” I do not wish to go through the parliament. From past experiences of going through the parliament—previously the National Assembly and now the Legislative Yuan, the “high threshold” requiring the approval of three-fourths of the members makes it impossible for revisions to be made for a good constitution. We want Taiwan to become a truly complete, normal, and great country. We want a constitution that I do not wish to be custom-made for myself, for I will not be able to implement it while in office. I hope that, after I am re-elected, I will succeed in promoting a referendum on the formulation of a new constitution. This new constitution will be born in 2006, and on May 20, 2008, when I step down upon completion of my second term in office, the new constitution will be implemented by the twelfth-term president. It will not serve my own selfish interests or those of any political party. It will be geared to the long-term governance and permanent stability of the whole of Taiwan. Only then will it serve the genuine consolidation and deepening of Taiwan’s democracy. Therefore, the year 2008 is just a coincidence of timing. It has never occurred to us that when they hold the Olympic Games in 2008, we will hold the Taiwan Expo. As to why the new constitution will be implemented in 2008, that just happens to be when I will complete my second term in office. It is merely a coincidence.
Q8: What's your opinion of the PRC leadership?
A: We only have one wish, that on March 20th next year, when the people of Taiwan make their due decision and select me as the eleventh-term president of Taiwan, Hu Jintao and the leaders of China will respect and accept the decision made by the people of Taiwan.
Q9: Mr. President, do you consider this to be Taiwan's biggest crisis since 1996?
A: I do not really think so. Much of it is being fanned up, and I think that the root cause of the seemingly great tension across the Strait actually comes from the reluctance of the Chinese leadership in not wanting to see myself re-elected.
I think in the past the Beijing authorities said they would be even-handed and not interfere with Taiwan's elections, so why are they now making loud protests and creating such an issue? I think the reason is very simple: that they now judge that I will be reelected as the next president of Taiwan. I am certainly not their favorite candidate for the presidency, just as former president Lee Teng-hui was not in 1996. This is a case of history repeating itself. I want to say very clearly to the Beijing authorities that the candidate you dislike will, however, be re-elected as president.